Agenda for 2009/09/03 dev chat:
- Discuss WP.org plugin directory policies. Should have Mark Riley present. As people are beginning to experiment with GPL-compliant business models around plugins, some issues should be clarified WRT the plugin directory:
– Plugins that promote expanded services by the author (“have me customize this plugin for you!”)
– Plugins that ask for monetary donations in the admin UI
– Plugins that are a “lite” version of a premium GPL plugin/support bundle
Updates from August, 2009 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
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Mark Jaquith
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Jane Wells
Agenda for 8/27/09 dev chat:
-Comment meta / generic meta. (Westi)
-Page comments in default theme (Joseph/Westi)
-whatever else -
Peter Westwood
Add agenda suggestions for Aug 27th dev chat
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Peter Westwood
Comment meta / generic meta.
Trash implementation needs somewhere to store the meta data it needs and the current option based solution does seem right -
Joseph Scott
Fix the long standing issue of the default theme not supporting comments on Pages. See ticket – http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/3753
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Alex (Viper007Bond)
Latest embed patch needs a peer review and then can be committed for initial feedback and testing. https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/10337
There doesn’t really need to be a discussion, just a note that testing needs to take place.
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Jane Wells
August 20 dev chat agenda. Short, so the core devs can keep barreling through commits and patches (targeting half an hour this week instead of an hour).
Topics:
- GSoC student projects: any headed for core, and what needs to be done
- Cloning suggestion (JohnMyr, Mark J)
- Embed feedback (Alex)
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Devin Reams
Hey Jane, do you do any ‘meeting minutes’ or notes taken during the meeting on decisions? I went back and read through the logs but I think a quick recap would be beneficial.
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Jane Wells
Add agenda suggestions for Aug 20 dev chat.
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Alex M (Viper007Bond)
Low priority: more
[embed]feedback to make sure I’m going in a wanted direction with the code. -
johnmyr
It might not be appropriate for dev talk, but as Mark said in last weeks suggestions: “2.8.1, .2, .3, .4 — it doesn’t look good” and not having enough beta testers for 2.8, may it be time to discuss the possibility of a plugin to support “cloning” of an entire site to localhost or test server to do beta testing before upgrading on major releases. It should bring more bugs out of the dark and into the light, at an earlier stage.
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johnmyr
I believe there used to be something like that for Joomla, but I`m not sure since I converted to WP years ago and havent looked back.
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johnmyr
My post on the subject: http://wp.me/pBQos-3
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Mark Jaquith
I think there’s the seed of a useful idea here. We have to think about what would be most useful to regular users. A dev can fairly easily clone a site, but we need to think in terms of regular users and the “oh no, an upgrade has gone sideways, how do I roll back?” scenario.
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Jane Wells
Discuss whether any of the GSoC projects are ready/appropriate for inclusion in 2.9. (Ryan)
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Jane Wells
August 13 dev chat agenda: We have more topics than can realistically fit into an hour, so I’m going to suggest that for some of them we have a cutoff after 10 minutes to determine whether the topic requires more time, and push continued discussion to a Trac thread, a post here on wpdevel, or another IRC that we could set up for tomorrow or next week sometime other than the regular Thursday time.
Topics:
- Unresponsive script errors on widgets screen (Denis, Andrew)
- Check for plugin compatibility before upgrading, volunteer to code? (Peter)
- Indication that post is in publishing process/loading graphic/disabling other stuff (Matt Mullenweg, Andrew)
- Custom post types support (John M, Peter, Ryan, et al)
- Media features approach (Mark Jaquith, Matt Mullenweg)
- Documentation/handbooks (Jane: going to suggest setting up a separate chat for tomorrow)
- GSoC student projects
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Mark Jaquith
Consider a post by lead devs talking about what happened with 2.8.1, .2, .3, .4 — it doesn’t look good that we had so many security releases in a row. Perhaps we should frame them appropriately, and offset it with our ability to push security fixes quickly with the one-click WP core upgrade.
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Jane Wells
Sounds good. Write up a draft?
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Mark Jaquith
Will do.
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Matt
I think this has already been addressed by latest release announcement and anything further would make it worse.
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Mark Jaquith
Is it? I don’t see anything but 2.8.4 info in the latest release announcement.
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Alex M (Viper007Bond)
I’d also like to quickly link my
[embed]mockup patch in order to get feedback at a later date. If there’s time that is.
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Jane Wells
Add suggestions for the Aug 15 dev chat. Leftovers from this week: documentation changes, roles/caps discussion.
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Denis de Bernardy
This ticket here. Speeds things up by a factor of 5-10 on some browsers…
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Denis de Bernardy
That would be assuming Andrew doesn’t commit it beforehand, of course…
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Andrew Ozz
That would probably take quite a bit of testing. Also need to keep future compatibility in mind. Things that make it faster in IE6/7 now but slower in all newer browsers (including IE8) aren’t that good.
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Jane Wells
Check for plugin compatibility before upgrading. We talked about it a couple of weeks ago, but I think we didn’t reach any firm conclusion and planned to bring it back up when Ryan was back. Would like to get this nailed and someone(s) assigned to work on it.
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Peter Westwood
I think this is a really good idea – and will get to it in the end if someone doesn’t beat me to it.
But if someone wants to cook up a patch I will gladly review and commit
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Denis de Bernardy
There was a related ticket that allowed to add headers in plugins, and a separate one that allowed to parse readme files.
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Jane Wells
Has been suggested that we could benefit from showing some kind of indicator when publishing is happening to make it clear that the data is in process, since it often takes a couple of seconds for the screen to refresh. A simple loading graphic (like we use with the JS stuff such as quick edit) could maybe appear next to the publish/update button, or something like that. Would like to get people’s input on the idea.
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Matt
Yes, and everything on the page should be disabled or greyed out so you don’t click out.
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Jane Wells
Disabled/grayed out makes me nervous, could it just be the usual ‘navigate away from this screen, changes may be lost’ kind of message?
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Matt
This is after the publish button has been clicked, right?
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Jane Wells
Yes, it appears that the loading graphic that used to be there is missing (running trunk). On further consideration, I’d be for disabling editing until the page reloads.
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Andrew Ozz
We can easily disable all buttons with a timeout similar to autosave. Can probably add a spinner next to the publish/update button too, don’t think we ever had one there.
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John Myrstad
I guess the schedule is full, but if there is time is it possible to have a look at http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/9674 , better support for custom post types ? Is it possible to include some enhancements for 2.9 ?
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Jane Wells
Have asked the core devs to take another look at that ticket. I believe when we discussed feature set back in July, doing focused work on post types was deemed a 3.0 thing, but if people submit intermediate patches like this one that get us closer, if we can get people to test them, sounds good.
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Jane Wells
Media stuff. The GSoC albums project is finished (well, GSoC deadline has arrived, so the graded part is finished), so it’s time to discuss if we will base 2.9 media work on this, or if we will us a different approach (basing off a different plugin, starting from scratch, working from existing gallery code, etc). Mark Jaquith will talk about the GSoC project and how he envisions it being used, and Matt Mullenweg will be on hand to discuss possible alternatives. Once a decision is made, I’ll start wireframing based on whatever approach we’re using.
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Jane Wells
Remaining GSoC students. There were 3 students who didn’t make it last week. If any of them make it this week, would like to give them each 10 minutes (5 to present, 5 for Q&A) of main meeting time, with any additional questions/discussion being picked up after we get through agenda items.
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Jane Wells
August 6 dev chat agenda:
- 404 template: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/10191 (Dan Cole, Sivel, Ryan)
- GSoC student project presentations
- Roles/caps (Dan Cole, Denis, et. al.)
- Documentation brief plan (Jane)
- Anything else we have time for at the end
sc0ttkclark and one other person are discussing. 
johnmyr and one other person are discussing. 
Jane Wells 7:15 pm on August 31, 2009 Permalink |
I’ll see if Mark’s available, but I know he’s in an all-week support team conference this week, so making it to a 9pm chat might not be feasible. Might also want Matt, as people bringing this up in dev channel keep referencing his post re themes and GPL?
Mark Jaquith 2:07 am on September 1, 2009 Permalink |
Nevermind. Matt and I had a chat and there’s not really anything to discuss. Plugins that merely exist as placeholders for a plugin hosted elsewhere (like a “requirements check” plugin) are out, but “lite” versions, etc are in. The goal is to have the directory be free-to-download plugins. A placeholder for a premium plugin is against that spirit.
sc0ttkclark 7:03 pm on September 1, 2009 Permalink |
What about the other issues, like an official WP stance on:
– Plugins that promote expanded services by the author (”have me customize this plugin for you!”)
– Plugins that ask for monetary donations in the admin UI
– Plugins that are a “lite” version of a premium GPL plugin/support bundle
Jeffro 10:48 pm on September 3, 2009 Permalink |
Well, while it might be fine and dandy to have that explanation here on this site, I’m hearing that Matt is working on a post that will address these sorts of issues and make it more clear what the guidelines are for the plugin repository. Is this true? Some clarification along with perhaps a few examples would go a long way from having tons of people guess and throw around the topic that WordPress is anti-business.
Mark Jaquith 12:47 am on September 4, 2009 Permalink |
WordPress is not anti-business. We’ve just decided to keep the wp.org Plugin Directory a hosting site for zero-cost plugins. There is already a rule (#3) that says it is a hosting site, not a listing site. It’s for actual plugins, not plugins whose primary purpose is to send people somewhere else to download a plugin. This is not a change in policy as much as being consistent about the existing policies. One “requirements check” plugin was allowed in, and another was not. I was concerned about the dual standard.
If your plugin is actually a plugin, not just an advertisement or a placeholder for a plugin hosted elsewhere, you’re fine, as far as this rule is concerned.
Jeffro 1:45 am on September 4, 2009 Permalink
I personally know WordPress is not anti-business it’s the other people that seem to think this. However, those in question pretty much agree with the responses they received regarding the issue so I’ll just spread the word.