Updates from September, 2010 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts

  • Jane Wells 6:43 pm on September 30, 2010 Permalink | Reply  

    Dev Chat for Thursday, September 30 is officially cancelled, due to unexpected conflicts and family emergencies among the lead team.

    Please feel free to congregate as usual, and take over the asylum to discuss patches in progress, best approaches to fixing bugs, and whatever else a collaborative hour can help move forward. Remember, feature freeze is in 2 weeks, so if you have a pet ticket you’re hoping to get in, try to get the patch up this week.

    Will return next week at the regular time. In meantime, anyone who has been assigned a task for 3.1 should post a comment here with an update on status.

     
  • Peter Westwood 7:54 am on September 30, 2010 Permalink | Reply
    Tags:   

    Suggest Agenda Items for today’s meet-up
    Please keep them on-topic

     
    • demetris 2:48 pm on September 30, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Before trying to get feedback from plugin/theme authors and translators about my idea for an approach that would make it easier to translate plugins/themes, I would like to know what core contributors think about it.

      Proposal: Pool of common strings for core, themes, and plugins

      http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/14972

      As I explain in the ticket, what would this mean for core, as far as I have thought it out, is designating a few dozen commonly used strings as strings for common use and not liable to change, and copying them over to a new file.

      I don’t know if this needs to be discussed in a dev meetup or if we can just use the ticket. Whatever people think.

      • Jane Wells 6:40 pm on September 30, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Let’s use the ticket, so that time zone/availability won’t be a barrier to participating in discussion.

    • scribu 6:09 pm on September 30, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Admin menu API. #14666 which led to #12718

  • Andrew Nacin 7:18 pm on September 20, 2010 Permalink | Reply
    Tags:   

    wp-db.php is now always included. Database drop-ins should continue to work without any adjustment in most cases (or can be adjusted to work with small tweaks).

    This is for performance as we are no longer conditionally including a file. It also allows db.php files to cleanly extend wpdb, which previously required a bit of tinkering.

    See http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/14508.

     
  • Andrew Nacin 5:40 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: custom post types   

    CPT enhancements 

    I’m trying to put together a small but well-defined set of enhancements that custom post types deserve consideration in 3.1.

    What I have so far is this:

    • Opt-in archive/index pages for custom post types
    • Opt-in default meta capability handling for custom post types
    • Improve the custom post status API, and make them type-specific

    Beyond that, I’m also thinking about opt-in ways to get more than the default post types displayed on other views. As it is now, we currently also allow searching for pages for example, so we would more or less be extending that. You may want to allow a post type to show up on the category or tag pages, for example. The API ideally wouldn’t be more complicated than, say, register_taxonomy_for_object_type.

    What are your thoughts? Let me know your pet bugs, peeves, and workarounds. (Just keep in mind we’re aiming for small, defined scope here. KISS.)

     
    • Aaron D. Campbell 5:42 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Opt-in ability to include your custom post type in the main RSS feed. It’s not exceptionally difficult now, but I think it’s going to be a pretty common task.

      • Andrew Nacin 5:44 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Good call. That’d be part of the other views aspect. My take — When I’ve done these recently, I’ve found that I’ve wanted to prefix the title of certain custom post types, as otherwise they are without context. We’ll be exposing filters on the_title and such so I don’t see that to be an issue though.

      • Mark Jaquith 2:56 am on September 14, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I’m not so sure. If you want it in the posts feed, make it a post. CPTs are for non-post content.

        • Mike Schinkel 3:30 am on September 14, 2010 Permalink

          “CPTs are for non-post content” – I couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately probably half of the examples I’ve seen have written about CPTs show them used for variations on Posts (*not* the WordPress team, but others.) Those articles then influence many others and so you have lots of people using CPTs for things where they aren’t really the best solution. I’m thinking its an education issue, and maybe the stuff that Ryan’s working on (#14746) will give people a more obvious alternative for addressing the needs people have been creating Post-like CPTs.

    • filosofo 6:03 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      You may want to allow a post type to show up on the category or tag pages, for example. The API ideally wouldn’t be more complicated than, say, register_taxonomy_for_object_type.

      That seems like a no-brainer: if a custom post type is public and has that taxonomy (e.g., “category”) registered, it should show up in queries for objects in that taxonomy.

      • demetris 8:22 am on September 21, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Absolutely! Is there a ticket for that?

        • Victor Teixeira 10:39 pm on September 27, 2010 Permalink

          I created a ticket for this sometime ago. See #14589.

    • Kunal 6:11 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      A few more hooks in wp-admin/post.php, edit.php etc. to add the ability to modify bulk action lists and the corresponding actions on posting, place metaboxes before the content area, removing the “Edit | Delete | etc. tags from the Title column value in the post-type table and adding an extra column for it (with CSS hacks to put it back in place) — that way I don’t have to add the corresponding code back when I remove the title from the posts column.

    • Mike Schinkel 6:27 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      > “Opt-in default meta capability handling for custom post types”

      Not sure what that means…?

    • Mike Schinkel 6:31 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      It would be nice to have an easy way when defining the post type to say under what menu it should be referenced. For example I might want a Movies custom post type and an Actors custom post type but I want to put the list of Actors as a menu item for the Movie and just let the user go to the Actor list page to add an Actor. Same would go for taxonomies, I guess. I’ve seen several people ask about how to do this on WordPress Answers.

    • Jesse Sutherland 6:39 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      It’s my understanding that you can’t use wp_query to filter by post type and taxonomy at the same time. I was told so here. It’s been on the bug tracker before: here and here. As mostly a front-end guy myself, it seemed totally obvious that I would be able to combine custom post types and custom taxonomies to filter with. That would be my enhancement request.

    • Ünsal Korkmaz 6:54 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Custom attachment types considering? I think its about custom post types.
      For example, i want 3 different type of photo/image type for my project and i dont want to see all photos in same gallery.
      (sorry for bad english)

      • Mike Schinkel 5:59 pm on September 15, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I don’t think you want different post types for different usages for images. Why not use taxonomy to classify maybe using the Media Tags plugin? Or maybe this #14746 will address?

    • Stephane Daury 8:03 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      #14649 in regards to silent fail when registering a CPT namespace longer than 20 characters. Especially vile when auto-computing CPT namespaces.

      • Andrew Nacin 8:06 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I don’t think we even perform sanity checks for usernames (related #11959), and we don’t for option names — we’ve generally been independent from the underlying schema. That said, auto-computing CPT namespaces as a use case makes perfect sense. Perhaps these should be tackled at once.

    • Ron 10:04 pm on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I would add something to the register function like supports ‘blog’, ‘archive’ or similar that was the signal to include it what have traditionally been blog queries: searches, tags, categories, etc.

    • Nico 9:52 am on September 14, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      That’s a good news to allow cpt archive to be displayed. I’m using custom post type/taxonomy and regrets that WP doesn’t deal with permalink structure (see this ticket : http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/13889).
      Hope it will in next release.

    • Boone B. Gorges 12:26 pm on September 14, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I’d like to see finer-grained controls over what is currently covered by show_ui. Right now it’s impossible without hackery to hide a CPT from the menu but at the same time allow access to the Edit screens for that post type (or vice versa, though it’s harder to envision a use case for that). Maybe show_ui could be shorthand for show_menu_ui and show_edit_ui, so you could get more fine-grained if you wanted to.

      • Andrew Nacin 3:38 pm on September 15, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Boone, I think you’ll find this use case covered by #14145. Specifically the ability to set it to false.

    • Anna 11:58 am on September 15, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      The simple way to manage relationship between posts of defferent types.

      For example in my project I have post, event and galleries post types and any particular gallery could be related both to posts or events.

      I’ve read a various discussions about how to store such relationships using taxonomy or postmetas – but… they don’t seem to be efficient because overcomplicate so simple and commonly needed (in case of CMS) task

      The second issue – permalink structure…
      For “normal” posts we have simple dialogue under settings menu to customise the structure… but for custom post type – only “rewrite” argument while registering. So you need to add rewrite rules in code if you need something more complex or use some pluging for that.

      • Mike Schinkel 5:54 pm on September 15, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Both excellent suggestions Anna. Here are two trac tickets on the issues: #14513 & #12935 .

      • Derek Perkins 4:23 pm on September 16, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I think that this is the single most important change that needs to be added besides exposing CPT archives. It’s being hotly discussed here, http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/14513, so if you’d like to weigh in there, that would be great.

        In the short term however, the plugin Posts 2 Posts (http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/posts-to-posts/) works great. I’ve been beta testing for scribu, and the updated version that supports metadata about each connection should be released soon. It’s a well coded plugin with a super easy to use default interface.

        • Anna 9:57 pm on September 16, 2010 Permalink

          Thank you, Derek, for your recommendation… I’ve tried the post2posts plugin – but for unknown reason it did not work on this particular project – interface appeared but was not able to detect my posts and could not therefor store relations.

          Actually I’ve failed to find what was wrong with that so there was a choice – to fork the plugin or to write something myself :) ))

        • Derek Perkins 10:31 pm on September 16, 2010 Permalink

          I’d give it a try again once version 0.4 is released. I think you’ll be pleased with the results.

        • Mike Schinkel 11:26 pm on September 16, 2010 Permalink

          JMTCW, and this is no slight on scribu who is an excellent programmer but I really don’t like the non-standard way in why Posts 2 Posts uses the database. It overloads field meaning which in may experience is almost always discovered to be a mistaken down the road. FWIW.

        • Derek Perkins 7:25 am on September 17, 2010 Permalink

          What exactly is non-standard about it or overloading field meaning?

        • Mike Schinkel 3:38 am on October 19, 2010 Permalink

          Sorry I missed your question back when you asked it. When I made the comment you replied to I was referring to the fact that the p2p plugin originally stored it’s foreign key fields in the wp_terms.name field with “p” as a prefix and that’s a non-standard approach for relational database foreign key implementations. At the time scribu was claiming that it was an acceptable approach to use the taxonomy system in that way because it avoided adding a new table. I was arguing against the use of the taxonomy system to relate posts and in favor of a new table (see http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/14513) but I was told it “was an edge case” by Jane and westi. Looking at the p2p plugin now it seems scribu has added two tables; a wp_p2p table and a wp_p2pmeta table so I take back what I said now that p2p has been updated to use (a) new table(s), and I guess my argument regarding the need to add at least one new table made sense to scribu all. Now if the core team would just consider adding something like this to core…

    • Lee Willis 1:55 pm on September 15, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Improvements to how you theme CPTs (& Custom taxonomies for that matter).

      http://bit.ly/bFMpTo

    • Mike Schinkel 6:15 pm on September 16, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Here’s another simple one (that I just had a need for for several different things): A “single use” (aka singleton) post type. This would be useful for what we’ve been using pages for use as a “Directions” or “Contact Us” page but where there are one or more custom meta boxes that only apply to the page of that type. It would also be useful or a complex Settings page where the features or a post type (custom fields, featured image, taxonomy associations, etc.) would be very useful

      It wouldn’t have a post list or plural labels and would only ever have one instance and It’s default URL would be off the root. When registering it should have a way to indicate under which menu a menu item for it should be linked but by default it could go under a “Miscellaneous” menu section.

      This can already be done it just requires lots of tweaking of the values after post type registration. It would be nice if all that tweaking could be done as parameters to register_post_type().

      • Andrew Nacin 9:18 pm on September 16, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I don’t see why these aren’t just pages with special handling?

        The admin menu aspect is otherwise handled for post types in an aforementioned ticket.

        • Mike Schinkel 11:24 pm on September 16, 2010 Permalink

          Pages with custom metaboxes is exactly the solution we came to plan on though I haven’t implemented it yet. But it’s inelegant and potentially fragile.

          When the add new or edit screen loads in the admin for a Page we’d need a way to identify the correct page type from within the plugin code. I can think of the follow ways:

          1.) By post title. This completely fragile and would be least recommended.

          2.) By post name (slug). This is not bad but WordPress has a nasty habit of adding “-2″ to post names or a zealous SEO could decided to add keywords to an existing site.

          3.) By post ID. This is okay but requires somewhere else to let the user specify it and they might delete the page and re-add it thus severing the connection and breaking the page

          4.) By hidden taxonomy term. This is not bad but plugins that don’t realize some terms should be hands off can expose this to end user modification and some code needs to add these.

          5.) By a hidden custom field. This is least bad but must be added somehow by some code somehow which requires more knowledge than how to call register_post_type().

          Another issues is if the singleton is not being used like a page then all queries for post_type=”post” are suspect and may need to be filtered.

          Anyway, was just describing what my client and I identified as another use-case.

      • Victor Teixeira 11:05 pm on September 27, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Take a look at the wonderful fields plugin: http://calce.net/fields/
        It allows you to create metaboxes for one specific page and works beautifully.

    • Daniel Bloemberg 7:53 am on September 17, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Possibility to predefine a category (categories) to a CPT. Users using the Movie CPT wont have to remember to assign the Movie category.

    • John Blackbourn 5:00 pm on September 17, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I just found an annoyance with CPTs while working with them today.

      Often I’ll set up a WordPress install with a Page as the front page, and a Page at /blog/ to display the blog posts (from Settings->Reading). I’ll then set my permalink structure so it has /blog/ prepended to it – eg. “/blog/%year%/%monthnum%/%postname%/”. This means all blog posts are within /blog/.

      When I add a new hierarchical CPT it’s URL gets prepended with /blog/, giving me a URL such as example.com/blog/foo/bar/ instead of example.com/foo/bar/. This means this CPT is behaving differently to WordPress’ built in Pages yet they’re both hierarchical.

      So my request is that a new parameter is introduced to register_post_type() which allows you to specify whether the rewrite rule follows the rules of Posts (taking into account anything in the permalink settings) or whether it follows the rules of Pages, and simply works from the root of the site. The former should be the default because it’s the current implementation.

      Thoughts? Should I open a ticket for this?

      • Andrew Nacin 8:21 pm on September 17, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Already in 3.0.

        register_post_type() takes a rewrite argument. This argument can be true, false, or an array. If an array, you can do some adjustments to the rewrites that are added. Specifically, two arguments: slug (defaults to post type slug), and with_front (default true). Setting with_front to false will have it avoid /blog/.

    • Victor Teixeira 10:56 pm on September 27, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      The possibility to filter taxonomies by post types with url rewriting.
      Ex: site.com/schools/cities/new-york/ would display all schools (post type) on the New York City (taxonomy).

      Should be simple as this: if a taxonomy appears after the post type on the url, then it gets filtered by it.

      See: #14497 and #14502.

      Also another good feature would be the ability to create menus for custom post type archives.

    • Tom 10:20 pm on November 16, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I know that I am late to the party here with this question but I am wondering if there will be a way to add custom post type archive pages to the nav menu? Also will the parent page for custom post types continue to be the “Posts page” or is there the potential that the archive page for each post type might be able to be the parent page and have a class applied as such when the menu is rendered?

      • Andrew Nacin 1:08 am on November 20, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        We haven’t really thought about that yet, but I know I’ve mentioned it in #13818 as an option. Patches welcome ;)

  • Jane Wells 3:14 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply
    Tags:   

    As you know, GSoC is over. I’ll be writing up a summary of all the student projects once we finish reviewing them all, but general stat is that out of our 15 students, all but 2 passed both their midterm and final evaluation (87% success rate). We’ll be sending two representatives to the GSoC mentor summit in October in California: Aaron Campbell and Boone Gorges, with John James Jacoby as the alternate.

     
  • Jane Wells 2:46 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , etiquette,   

    The Purpose of the Dev Chat 

    Every now and then it seems like people forget the purpose of the dev chat, or new community members aren’t clear on it, so I thought this, the beginning of a new development cycle, would be a good time to reiterate the purpose of the dev chat. The dev chat is a weekly product team meeting (see About the Dev Chat), not a weekly social gathering/town hall/q&a. For anyone who’s ever worked at a software company, an agency, etc., this should be a familiar concept: The team working on a software project meets, everyone gives an update on their part of the project, any roadblocks/red flags are identified and solutions are discussed, and updated assignments are given/confirmed.

    Each release cycle we remind people that this is the intended use of the dev chat, but somehow along the way we wind up losing track of that, and it turns into a combination of dev chat + ideas forum + wp-hackers live. Because the 3.1 cycle is so short (feature freeze is little more than a month away!), we need to stay focused this time around. We will be much stricter about staying on agenda, and while anyone is welcome to attend, we will ask people who have questions/suggestions that are not on the agenda to either wait until the dev chat is over or to bring it up in another venue, such as wp-hackers, on a Trac ticket, or in the forums.

    It’s understandable that many people want a direct line to the lead developers, and knowing they will be in a specific place at a specific time makes it easy to corner them to pitch pet requests, but please respect that these busy individuals are continually prioritizing the pet requests of hundreds of people and millions of users. Hijacking their product team meeting doesn’t help anyone’s cause.

    “Are you kicking me out?” some people may be thinking to themselves. No. The #wordpress-dev channel is open 24/7, and given the time zone distribution, there’s usually one or more lead developers in there, as well as numerous contributors. Discussion about core topics is welcome in the #wordpress-dev channel any time, and questions are usually answered gladly (and let’s face it, @nacin never sleeps). The weekly team meeting just needs to stay on target, on schedule, and focused on the actual contributing team. Though most people are volunteers working on WordPress core part-time, contributors are part of a product team, and their time should be treated with the same respect that any corporate product team would receive, if not more.

    If you are not working on patches for this cycle, please let the core product team get through its agenda. Hang on to your other questions to ask during one of the 167 hours per week in the channel that don’t have a specific agenda/schedule, or ask in another venue (Trac tickets are best, since it’s asynchronous and acts as the permanent discussion record for each feature). A good guideline here would be to think of another piece of software that you use. Let’s say Firefox or Microsoft Word. If you wanted a new feature, or wished they would code something a certain way so you could do something you specifically want to do for your clients, would you interrupt their product team meetings to ask for it? If not, then please grant the same courtesy to the WordPress developers. If you would interrupt them because you found something so major that it really needed to be addressed asap (like a security problem), then please don’t wait for the weekly dev chat! Get in touch with the developers in the channel right away, so that someone can assess the issue.

    If you’re following along in the dev chat and while the team is discussing a specific feature you think of something about the way they’re approaching it that you feel certain the lead devs/core contributors haven’t thought of yet, you are welcome to speak up (having read the Trac ticket first is a good idea, to make sure you’re not raising something that has already been discussed and dismissed). Maybe your idea is brilliant and everyone will thank you for the suggestion/fresh approach — go you! However, if you make your suggestion and the product team is not inclined to take it, please respect their decision. At that point, the best way to try and convince someone that your suggestion is a better approach is to code the patch yourself and upload it to Trac. Patches speak much louder than words in this case.

    Remember, the WordPress motto is “Code is poetry,” and for this particular hour each week, the poets are the main event. Thanks!

     
    • Andrew Nacin 3:52 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Well said.

    • Jacob Santos 6:32 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      What do you do when you have a patch and it isn’t getting any traction? This might be a good post to do next.

      • JohnONolan 6:51 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Write a plugin? :)

        • Jacob Santos 7:46 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink

          Clarification: What happens when you write a patch that isn’t getting any traction that fixes a bug or can’t be handled by a plugin?

        • Jane Wells 8:21 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink

          @Jacob: publicize it, advocate for it, get people to test it and leave feedback on the ticket. If there’s ‘no traction’ it usually means they’re waiting for it to be tested and weighed in on by the community. If they just don’t want to commit something, they’ll say so and close the ticket.

        • Ryan McCue 9:22 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink

          In any case, I’d say just to mention it to a developer, but *after* the dev chat. No reason it needs to be brought up during the dev chat itself.

      • Mark Jaquith 9:36 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I like Ryan’s suggestion. We usually hang around a bit. Fine to wait for and ping us with some tickets we may have not seen or need to revisit.

    • Stephanie Leary 4:18 pm on September 10, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      This is great information, but I feel like you’re preaching to the choir by placing it here, as most of the people who need to hear this still aren’t aware that this blog exists.

      Maybe a new wiki page linking off the dev chat mention in the channel description…?

      • Andrew Nacin 5:35 pm on September 10, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I think very few who idle in #wordpress-dev fail to follow this blog. The exception would be individuals who wander over from #wordpress, thinking that dev is for development in general, versus core development chatter, but those individuals are simply in the wrong place. Those who need to read this post I imagine have read it.

        That said, I think you’re spot on about the lack of good information (as also mentioned in #wordpress-dev earlier) for where patch contributors should go for help, how to get involved, how code makes it into WordPress, etc. Changing that is a very important goal of the core contributor handbook. But back to this, mostly they just are not aware of the IRC resources, not vice versa.

    • arena 10:26 am on September 12, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Could it be possible to clean up TRAC for the “Future Release milestone” which has 900 tickets … and counting !!

      thanks

      • Andrew Nacin 6:04 am on September 13, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        You’re welcome to assist. If I had to guess, I bet 200 tickets can be instantly closed as a duplicate (potentially since it has already been implemented), wontfix (such as some feature requests better as plugins or ideas), or invalid. Milestones are not editable but that doesn’t stop triage from occurring. And “Suggest 3.1″ for example is all it takes for one of us to move the ticket.

  • Jane Wells 1:46 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply
    Tags:   

    Ryan is traveling today and we forgot to reschedule the dev chat, so today will be a short and sweet confirmation of who’s working on what for 3.1. No new business.

    Agenda:

    • Summary of the big tasks that have been approved/assigned: Jane, Mark Jaquith, Peter Westwood, Nacin
    • Assign any unclaimed approved-but-developerless tasks
    • Brief review of 3.1 scope, and why some suggestions made on wpdevel are out of scope for this release Jane, Nacin, Jaquith, Westi
    • Trac/bug review – Westi, Nacin, Jaquith
     
    • Peter Westwood 2:22 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I will be around for the whole meetup and will happily discuss/review any pet tickets people have for “bugs” once the short formalities detailed above are out of the way.

      To qualify for this the tickets should have a good summary of the issue and preferably a smallish patch which resolves the issue ;-)

  • Otto 8:37 pm on September 7, 2010 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , , ,   

    The WordPress.org support forums now have subscribe by email, to tags.

    To use, login, then view any single tag page. At the bottom of the page, sorta hidden on the left side, you’ll see a link called “Subscribe to Tag via Email”. It’s a toggle.

    Note: If you subscribe to heavily trafficked tags, you’re likely to get a LOT of emails. I suggest you use this sparingly, or get an email system that can cope.

    Note the second: I fully expect there to be bugs. This is new. Expect fixes when I find them.

     
    • Alex M. 8:41 pm on September 7, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Sweet! I’m personally going to stick to tag feeds, but I’m sure this will be handy for others! Well done!

      • Otto 8:43 pm on September 7, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Yeah, me too. But subscribe by email is one of those things that is continually asked for. The main reason for this is to give plugin authors a way to more easily see topics posted about their plugins.

    • Mike Schinkel 9:03 pm on September 7, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      NICE! I will definitely use this. It will be especially handy for plugin authors too.

    • Milan 10:00 pm on September 7, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      It’s great that you listened to my suggestions. Will you release code somewhere so that it can be used on other bbPress forums too?

      • Otto 10:03 pm on September 7, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I need to clean up the plugin first and work out any bugs, but yes, eventually.

    • Simon Wheatley 8:52 am on September 8, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Nice work, this is going to be super handy!

      Currently it’s not possible to subscribe to a tag which has no posts. Any chance of allowing preemptive tags?

      • Jive 8:39 pm on September 15, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Seconded. Email subscriptions for tags without posts would be very useful so that devs can be notified when the first forum post is made.

        • Otto 9:17 pm on September 16, 2010 Permalink

          No plans to add this, but there is a quick workaround: Add the tag to one of your own posts, subscribe to it, then remove the tag.

        • Milan 5:29 pm on September 29, 2010 Permalink

          If you followed my advice and used built-in functions, this wouldn’t be a problem.

          Why you actually created completely new functions?

    • kyle 12:26 pm on September 8, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I’m so happy you turned this on. I’m a much higher contributor to topics now.

      Thanks,
      ~Kyle~

    • Mike Schinkel 3:48 pm on September 8, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Some suggestions after a day of usage:

      1.) HTML UNencode the content.
      2.) Include the message which is being replied to like this site does.

      #2 is a nice to have, #1 is a must have…

      Thanks.

      -Mike

      • Otto 4:35 pm on September 8, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        It’s already running it through strip_tags. What HTML are you seeing?

        • Mike Schinkel 6:24 pm on September 8, 2010 Permalink

          Just sent you two example via email.

        • Otto 6:33 pm on September 8, 2010 Permalink

          HTML Entities. Got it. No problem, I can patch the plugin to handle these correctly.

    • Mike Schinkel 7:50 pm on September 8, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Another tiny suggestion. The wording is a little unclear, especially for unsubscribe:

      – Subscribe to Tag via Email
      – Unsubscribe to Tag via Email

      Maybe?

      – Subscribe to Emails for this Tag
      – Unsubscribe from Emails for this Tag

      Clearly people will figure it out as it but it caught me off guard for a second when I decided to unsubscribe a high-volume tag.

    • Michael Fields 8:17 am on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Loving this functionality! I think that this feature is really going to help out with the quality of support at wordpress.org. One suggestion that I have is to add the ability to subscribe to a thread without replying to it.

      • Otto 8:27 am on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        You already can subscribe without replying. Look on the right hand side, under “About this Topic”. There’s a subscribe/unsubscribe link there. Click it.

    • Mike Schinkel 9:07 pm on September 10, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      If you are looking for enhancements that would be highly appreciated two that would be are:

      1.) Preview-As-You-Type – I’ve been using a preview-as-you-type system on http://wordpress.stackexchange.com/ and find it greatly reduces the effort required to produce a nicely formatted reply and it really cuts down on the save-edit-resave cycles.

      2.) A wiki-like syntax – Generally I hate wiki syntaxes and would prefer to see sites going with pure HTML as the WordPress Support site pretty much does but after a month of working with http://wordpress.stackexchange.com/ I have to say their wiki language gets it right; it’s much less effort to format answers on their site than on any other site/forum that I’ve used before.

      Something to consider anyway?

  • Matt 10:28 pm on September 4, 2010 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: content types   

    My suggestion on “content types” has gotten completely out of hand, with post styles, post templates…

    To clarify, my idea for the completion of that “feature” would be a wiki page with a taxonomy name and a few slugs we all agreed on (aside, gallery, quote, video…) and reaching out to the folks doing tumblelog themes to ask them to support it, noticeably Woo but also 2010, P2, Typographic.

    Basically a convention different themes can use so if you switch from one to another you don’t have to redo all your archives.

     
  • Jane Wells 4:08 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply  

    Process and Scope for 3.1, Part I 

    Last night’s dev chat was the first of two planning meetings for 3.1. The intention of this meeting was to remind everyone of the goals for 3.1, identify features that the lead team has prioritized, get an early sense of who’s willing to work on what, and to talk about the timeline. Much of what is written here is what was posted in the dev chat last night, to retain consistency.

    There were a lot of suggestions on the table. That said, quite a few suggestions fall outside the stated intentions of 3.1 (quick, fast dev cycle, no big huge projects). For anyone late to the party, here are the goals of 3.1: to have a very short dev cycle, a decent amount of testing time, and a release in mid-December. Low on new features, heavy on ui and code cleanup, and avoidance of schema changes. Save the big ideas for 3.2 where we’ll have the liberty to implement those ideas in PHP5. No schema changes and no big new APIs.

    This means stuff that got worked on over the summer or can be taken more or less wholesale from a plugin or patch has a better chance of being allowed into 3.1 than a brand new idea that doesn’t already have code written. In cases where we can do something small in 3.1 to pave the way for something bigger in 3.2, that will be the approach.

    To that end, the leads have identified some of the suggestions, both from the wpdevel and from other sources such as the ideas forum/WordCamp feedback/support forums, that would be appealing to include in 3.1. We’ve also identified some things that definitely do NOT fit into the scope of 3.1.

    An example of something that doesn’t fit:
    Media overhauls. We’re going to target 3.2 for a bunch of media fixes. The underlying code is too complex to do anything hardcore this fast. The only media things that would be acceptable in 3.1 would be small updates that don’t change the overall flow, such as the request to make the caption able to hold html to include links. If someone volunteered to code that, that addition would be acceptable in terms of scope. Other discrete things like this would work. Refactoring the way featured images work would be out of scope.

    Another thing that doesn’t fit is per-post/page/category widget selection. There are plugins that do this, and the code is nuts underneath. We want to stick to easy wins for 3.1.

    Now on to things that fit!

    Features

    Polishing features introduced in 3.0 can be one umbrella task. BUT — this means spit and polish ONLY, not adding features to features.

    New feature: Mark Jaquith is committed to getting in some advanced taxonomy queries stuff, which already has some movement in trac via scribu.

    Mark Jaquith also wanted to get down and dirty with roles/caps, but that’s just too big an undertaking for 3.1. Maybe in 3.1 we could do the get_users() and friends cleanup that scribu started on to pave the way for role cap cleanup next time around.

    In short? Mark Jaquith and scribu will be joined at the hip this cycle. :)

    New feature: Internal linking. This is my pet user feature for this release. It has been requested from users for years, got the most +1s on the wpdevel post last week, and is a missing piece of true CMS functionality. Since we likely won’t have Andrew Ozz for this release, Daryl Koopersmith is going to take a stab at this, with backup from Austin Matzko if needed.

    New feature: The ajaxified admin screens that scribu did for GSoC, with some UI cleanup applied. There was also a GSoC project by Matt H on comment moderation that needs to be reviewed for inclusion.

    New feature: Admin Bar. Connect the back end to the front end. Most useful for people on multisite installs, but still useful for single-site users in providing 1-click access to dashboard, new post form, etc. We’ll be looking at both the original Viper007Bond admin bar plugin and the wordpress.com revised admin bar recently done by Andy Peatling. Note: there was some resistance to this being in core rather than a plugin. A compromise of making it optional was discussed.

    Cleanup: UX/UI cleanup across the application, including multisite. This could turn into a ton of new dev, so we need to restrain ourselves. The UI group will do a review and come up with a list. Jane Wells and John O’Nolan will manage UI contributions from the group so that approved UI makes it into tickets.

    Ongoing maintenance: Bug fixes. Peter Westwood is all over bug fixes. Anyone and everyone invited to submit patches for known bugs.

    New feature: Separate network dashboard from the site dashboards (in multisite). Ryan started on this over the summer, and all agreed it would be great. Needs some UI love. Ryan also looked at doing a personal dashboard to replace the wonky global dashboard you get in multisite when someone has an account but no site. This might be a better 3.2 candidate, but we’ll see if we can get it to a reasonable place in time for 3.1.

    There are some small fixes to the custom post types API that ought to be made, while staying within the ‘no big API things’ guideline. Nacin is taking charge of this.

    I’d like to swipe the wordpress.com UI for searching/browsing installed themes, as it’s better than what we have in core (especially useful for multisite and sites with lots of installed themes, like those on shared hosting). I helped on the UI when John Godley made it last year, so I’d be comfortable with almost a straight swipe.

    New feature: Post templates/post styles. Ryan will be handling this one.

    New feature: Making QuickPress a template tag, so it can be used for front-end posting. Aaron Jorbin will be handling this.

    Other suggestions not on this list that fit into the 3.1 guidelines (no schema changes, no big new APIs, etc) will be considered until feature freeze if a well-tested patch has been posted by then. Well-tested means more than one person, so if you want your pet project to be considered for 3.1, publicize your patch and get people to test it and post their results to the trac ticket! If you do not take on this responsibility, please do not complain if your patch is not considered; tested patches will always get priority.

    Schedule

    We want to release mid-December, preferably no later than December 15, so that the holidays won’t interfere with the release. To that end, here is the current plan:

    September 9 – Confirm planned scope.

    October 15 – Feature freeze; no new features added after this point, so that testing can begin on a stable-ish product (including usabilty testing of new features).

    November 1 – Primary code freeze; any last adjustments based on testing after feature freeze should be finished by now and the focus shifts to fixing bugs to get to a stable beta.

    November 15 – Beta period beings; from this point on, no more enhancements, only bug fixes.

    December 1 – String freeze; translators rejoice.

    December 15 – Release WordPress 3.1

    So that’s the current thinking. The leads will be reviewing existing tickets and patches this week and working out the feasibility of including all the items outlined above. Next dev chat should see a conclusion to 3.1 scope planning, with some firm decisions on in/out and dates.

     
    • Melvin Ram 4:19 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I’d like to help with the UX/UI cleanup. Where will the UI group post this list once they do the review?

      • Jane Wells 4:52 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        You will want to follow the UI blog at http://make.wordpress.org/ui and/or join the weekly IRC meetings in #wordpress-ui at irc.freenode.net.

        • Ozh 6:22 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink

          Is anything planned regarding option pages? I find them quite dull and messy compared to other much more lively pages such as… all the others actually.

        • Jane Wells 6:47 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink

          Agreed, and they’ll be included in ux/ui review, but whether or not/to what degree they will be touched will depend on how many people volunteer to write the patches once we have approved wireframes.

    • Carl Hancock 4:19 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      “New feature: Post templates/post styles. Ryan will be handling this one.”

      What is this? Can someone provide more information on this new feature as it was discussed?

    • Kim 4:32 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      “New feature: Admin Bar. Connect the back end to the front end. …. Note: there was some resistance to this being in core rather than a plugin. A compromise of making it optional was discussed.”

      Of the 2 possibilities, I prefer the current wordpress.com admin bar.

      Please make this optional, default is off. That way users that want it will have to enable it if they want it.

      • Mike Schinkel 5:27 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        > Please make this optional, default is off. That way users that want it will have to enable it if they want it.

        +1

        • Scott Kingsley Clark 5:36 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink

          +1

        • Iva 8:25 pm on September 5, 2010 Permalink

          +1

      • Alex M. 7:17 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I don’t think there’s anyone arguing that it shouldn’t be optional (i.e. you can’t turn it off).

        There might be some arguing that it should be on by default, but I personally think it should be off by default as well.

        As for in core vs a core plugin, I haven’t made my mind up about that one.

        • Alex M. 7:18 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink

          Oh, and yes, I wouldn’t recommend using much of the code behind the scenes of my plugin. It’s rather dated and messy. It’d be much better to stick to stealing ideas and concepts from it rather than code implementations (giving it a code rewrite has been on my todo list for a while).

        • Mike Schinkel 8:39 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink

          It would be really nice if it could be the plugin that finally kicks off the concept for core plugins that we’ve been waiting for since announced. :-)

        • Mark 5:10 pm on September 4, 2010 Permalink

          I’m sure there was a lot of discussion around the whole idea and that if it’s made it in, it’s made it in. Nevertheless I think the logic escapes me (even after a brief review of the irc chat) why an admin bar would be more functional to CMS usability than something such as, say, the front end editor.

          I’m sure I’m not an average test case but out of the last couple dozen WordPress powered sites I’ve set up, it has never once crossed my mind that a front end admin bar would be a snazzy addition. +1 to it being optional and turned off by default, +1 to it having an uninstall feature.

        • Matt 5:11 pm on September 4, 2010 Permalink

          Admin bar is first step toward a front-end editor — think long term.

        • Voyagerfan5761 6:20 pm on September 4, 2010 Permalink

          Front-end editor, did you say? It would be awesome to see functionality like this integrated into core at some time in the future. (Of course, it’s a scribu project. ;-)

      • Ryan McCue 1:07 am on September 4, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Agreed, the WP.com admin bar seems to be the way to go, considering it was only recently rewritten as well (apparently).

        Definitely agreed on making it optional, and I think a core plugin is the best way to go on this.

        For the record, the bug for tracking this is #14772

    • Ozh 5:14 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      What is the “internal linking” stuff about exactly?

    • Mike Schinkel 5:27 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Are there a trac tickets for “advanced taxonomy queries” and “small fixes to the custom post types API” that detail scope? Thanks in advance.

      • filosofo 5:58 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Start here for taxonomy queries, and post types API.

        • David Cowgill 10:47 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink

          This is a great start! Would also love to see the sticky post option & custom permalink structures enabled for custom post types.

          Another one is adding a simple post type drop-down on post edit write panels. Basically bring in this plugin. http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/post-type-switcher/

        • Andrew Nacin 5:42 pm on September 4, 2010 Permalink

          I’m going to be looking at the first two ideas for 3.1. But I don’t foresee a post type switcher ever making it into core. Not every post type is publicly consumable content that can easily be traded off. Some might rely on specific fields, values, meta, not to mention term/taxonomy relationships, and offering a UI for that can easily break things. Keep in mind there’s no UI for post types anywhere, nor are there any plans for that to occur. The UI (same goes for the user) makes no distinction among post, page, event, employee.

        • Mike Schinkel 6:57 pm on September 4, 2010 Permalink

          @Andrew: Point of note, non publicly consumable content will have their public argument set to false so it would be easy to exclude them from content switcher so I wouldn’t see that as a viable concern. Even better, “allow_type_switch” could be added to “supports” enabling only explicitly approved content to be switched. Posts and Pages could be set as such and then developers could choose which custom post types they wanted to enable switching. Such an approach would assure pretty much no breakage. And let me go on record to say that the team will eventually add UI features for post types because 80% of users will demand it (just sayin…)

        • David Cowgill 7:31 pm on September 4, 2010 Permalink

          @Andrew, great. Those features will be welcome additions. For the custom permalink structure I recommend it can either inherit the WP defined one or you can create a totally different structure.

          I see what you mean about breaking things with a post type switcher. Even though it’s complicated, I have to agree with Mike that eventually people will request it. Guess it will have to wait until then. :-)

    • Rich Pedley 6:19 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      No mention of the accessibility that jorbin mentioned?

      Considering that Matt is a member of GAWDS (Guild of Accessible Web Designers) perhaps this should be a bit more prominent ;) I’m also surprised you haven’t contacted any of the GAWDS admins about accessibility, especially as one of the forum moderators, esmi, is a GAWDS admin….

      But if jorbin is reading, feel free to drop me an email as I have experience in reviewing sites for accessibility and could help out as well. I’m just not that ofay with trac/patches etc, but would be willing to work with someone who is to get the ball moving.

      • Jane Wells 6:49 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Accessibility isn’t a discrete new feature, which is why it isn’t called out separately but falls under the umbrella of ‘anything that can be written/tested/submitted before freeze.’ Accessibility patches will be reviewed and added anytime someone submits them (assuming they are up to par, of course). The problem is that very few people choose to submit accessibility patches. Accessibility patches welcome.

        • Rich Pedley 9:37 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink

          bleh, that means I’ll have to learn how to do patches correctly ;) – well when needed anyway, accessibility usually involves a lot of discussion.

          As the accessibility list is dead I’ll ask here, which would you prefer I looked at first, the Twenty Ten theme, or just dive into the admin pages?

        • Andrew Nacin 11:50 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink

          Jorbin and I met the other day with an accessibility expert who is local and we agreed that we should definitely try to audit what we can. It’s a very intensive task but patches are *always* welcome except really late in the cycle.

          I’d like to look at both. Having TT accessible will be nice, with the admin being higher priority (but more difficult).

        • Rich Pedley 7:34 am on September 4, 2010 Permalink

          Well I’ll start with Twenty Ten then ;) That’s actually more static than the evolving admin backend anyway. So should be slightly easier to assess. Well hopefully.

          I’d actually say the front end is more important than the back end, but with the number of different themes out there, it’s slightly skewed. It’s also a good way to test the water, see how changes are accepted etc.

          Also it has to be realised that different people will pick up on different things, accessibility isn’t as always a clear cut case.

          And yeah I saw that you’d had a meeting in the chat logs (see someone does read them).

          But remember the best way for accessibility auditing, is to use pan disability testing. I do know of a few but obviously their services, in the main, are not free.

        • Rich Pedley 2:46 pm on September 4, 2010 Permalink

          A big ‘doh’ from me re patches, let me never complain about them again.

          Made a start with Twenty Ten, just concentrating on links ‘mainly’, adding other bits if I come across them. Will submit a patch for CSS only when done.

        • Jane Wells 1:40 pm on September 5, 2010 Permalink

          @Rich: I would say look at the admin first, becaase Twenty Ten can be updated anytime, not tied to a release schedule. I will say that in previous releases we have had volunteer accessibility professionals review the admin through their systems once we get to the beta stage, and we fix anything they tell us is an issue. As you say though, different people will turn up different things.

    • arena 9:55 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      as far as i see new “The ajaxified admin screens” will break a lot of plugins admin pages ( #14651, #14776 )

      • Andrew Nacin 11:51 pm on September 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        There should be no backwards compatibility issues when we are done. Any regressions are potential blockers. cc @scribu.

    • Scott 12:07 am on September 5, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Might be too late to suggest this, or maybe the wrong place now that the dev chat and discussion already occurred, but:

      • Update core to the latest version of jQuery UI

      – Once that’s done, consider using the autocomplete that’s built into the latest version rather than suggest.js (http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/12399)

      • Andrew Nacin 3:28 am on September 7, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        We’ll be updating jQuery UI, but no plans to utilize autocomplete. We don’t use it anywhere in core, and suggest.js has served us well. Seems like an unnecessary refactoring.

    • Knut Sparhell 1:04 am on September 5, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      No taxonomy meta table?

      There are a lot of fine work going on out there among plugin authors, using custom post types with custom taxonomies. These are grets features that developed WordPress into a completely new dimension.

      Bu we MUST have a way to store meta data about a taxonomy id, like contact info, price scheme, valid, periods of validity an so on foremver. Now every athors invents their own method of storiung this data.

      Couldn’t WordPress core just define and create a tax_meta table for 3.1. I mean, without doing anything with it, Just lket it exist there for plugins, at least until 3.2?

      Or could we have an “officially” proposed table name and layout for this, something that plugin authors could implement an create, if not already created?

      Having ten plugins that all impelement their own prorietary metadata table is not a good situation, at least not the day WordPress core wants to implement one, too.

      I would say tha ta taxonomy_meta has become a “core necessity” and it’s quite urgent.

      • Mike Schinkel 9:13 pm on September 6, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        +1 on a revisiting the idea of a taxonomy meta table here. Lots of requests here and almost all of the code needed is already in 3.0 so scope is very small. Doesn’t need a UI yet, just needs to be there for plugin and theme devs.

      • Andrew Nacin 3:24 am on September 7, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Not for 3.1, but we’ve talked about publishing a “If we did it” post. So I’ll get going on that.

        • Justin Tadlock 12:28 pm on September 8, 2010 Permalink

          That post definitely needs to be written, and it needs to be “official.” I’ve gotten multiple questions relating to this on a weekly basis for over a year now from users. The only reason I haven’t implemented it myself is because I don’t want to deal with upgrade issues if core goes in a different direction in the future.

        • Andrew Nacin 12:44 pm on September 8, 2010 Permalink

          That’d be exactly the idea.

        • Mike Schinkel 6:26 pm on September 8, 2010 Permalink

          Just curious. If you can write an article about how you’d do it, why not just do it? From what I understand 90% of the code is already in core, right? (This is an honest question; I’m just trying to understand the need for delaying until after 3.1?)

    • Simon Wheatley 2:39 pm on September 6, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Can I cheekily push forward this media suggestion (in the knowledge that full media overhauls are out of scope)… just *three* filters! http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/13817

      • Mike Schinkel 9:14 pm on September 6, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        +1 to this ticket. After all as Simon says, it’s only three *filters*. :)

    • Brian Richards 6:47 pm on September 6, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      To clarify, is http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/12877 making it into 3.1? (specifically, searching for page templates in sub-folders?

    • Paul Hastings 2:01 am on September 7, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      It’d be awesome to swipe the wordpress.com method for searching already installed themes. I run a WPMS install and right now it’s a pain to manually dig through 60+ themes.

    • Tracey 10:49 pm on September 8, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Any chance of getting a simple ‘hide’ checkbox in the custom menu admin so that if you want to disable a menu item temporarily you don’t have to delete and add again. Reason I ask is that every time you do that it gives you a different css class which means, if you’re reliant on those classes for your styles you have to fix the css every time. Which also means that my clients are dependent on me to do this for them.

      • Jane Wells 2:56 pm on September 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Probably not in 3.1. We’re pretty resolved to not touch the menu system until 3.2. You’d probably be better off writing a plugin for this right now, and if it becomes popular, we can consider the functionality for core in the future.

    • Avi 8:27 am on October 5, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I am not clear with internal linking. What is it?

    • Gustavo S. Bordoni 3:55 am on November 4, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I was developing something that required the query for multiple Custom Fields, and when I was reading this I thought that Is a old request (http://bit.ly/cuujoQ). And there is any chance that will be coming any time soon?

      Thanks alot,

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